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Author Topic:   thicken
snork
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posted 08-05-2002 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for snork    Click Here to Email snork    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Simple Problem:

I've got a Bevel with a standart bevel cap on it. Then I want to create a border around it. So I construct a second bevel and now the problem appears:

using thicken on the second (noncapped) bevel creates leaks.

Hope you did understand it. Sorry I'm german.

QPsiren
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posted 08-05-2002 07:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for QPsiren Visit QPsiren's Homepage!   Click Here to Email QPsiren UIN: 142056528UIN: 142056528    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
It's best not to use the Thicken function. Try to create any borders you need from individual patch meshes.
Plan B
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posted 08-05-2002 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Plan B    Click Here to Email Plan B UIN: 159966629UIN: 159966629    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Time for another one of my picture heavy mini-tuts.
(Sorry 56K'ers )

------------------------------------------------------

I'm assuming you want to achieve something like this.
This is pretty much generic and doesn't necessarily reflect your situation but I hope it's useful in some way.
(Don't mind the fugly textures...they're mainly intended for alignment purposes )

I'm going to explain how I made this, step by step.
I always work from the middle outward and I always build everything with the common/caulk texture, initially;

------------------------------------------------------

1)

Draw out a square brush (128*128 units, in this case) in top view and make it into a bevel via the curves menu.
Cap it (with the cap-icon in the toolbar or via the curves menu) and delete (backspace) the original bevel and the bottom cap (cycling through the 3 parts that make up the capped bevel with tab).

->


2)

Place two clipped brushes around the bevel cap to create its surrounding faces.
(The height doesn't really matter because it's on the inside of the construction and only the top faces will be visible but I drew them the entire height of the construction, in this case).

->


3)

Draw out a 192*32 brush in top view and make it into a simple patch mesh with width 7 and height 3 via the curves menu.
(Notice how the brush size creates a situation where, when transformed into a 7*3 SPM, the vertices are placed on comfortable, big grid intervals).
Hit V for vertex-editing mode.

->


4)

Still in vertex-editing mode and in top view start pulling the vertices so they are placed as indicated.
It's important the 3 "inside" vertices coincide with the bevel cap patch vertices so the SPM strip joins it along the exact same curve.
The "outside" vertices are placed consistently to create a nice, even strip.
Notice how the SPM-vertices on the edges are placed to allow mitering with brush faces later on.

->


5)

You created the top-part of your patch border.

Now for the side-part follow the same steps (192*32 brush in top view made into a simple patch mesh with width 7 and height 3) but rotate it on the X-axis...

->

...before pulling the vertices into place in top view.

->


6)

The side-part of the patch border still selected, hit space to duplicate it and drag it down and stretch it to form the patch wall under it.

->


7)

You now created all your patch work.

Now it's simply a case of adding 4 clipped brushes to create the brush border parts and the brush wall parts.

->

------------------------------------------------------

Having built your caulk construction you now have to texture your visible faces and patches.

a)

Bevel caps:

Select, assign texture from texture console, select "cap" from the patch inspector (shift-S) and have the surrounding brush faces texturing and orientation based on that (deselect all, right-click on patch, ctrl-shift-right-click on surrounding brush faces).

->


b)

bent patches that DO lie in an axial plane:

Select, assign texture from texture console, select "natural" from the patch inspector, hit ctrl-shift-N until the texture is properly applied.
Have the surrounding brush faces texturing and orientation based on that (deselect all, right-click on patch, ctrl-shift-right-click on surrounding brush faces).
(making the brush face orientation axial which, of course, already is the case, usually...)

->


c)

bent patches that DO NOT lie in an axial plane:

Select, assign texture from texture console, select "natural" from the patch inspector.

->


Because patch selection "overrules" brush face selection you may have to isolate patches and their, similarly textured, neighboring brush faces. (select patch and neighboring brushes, hit I to invert selection and hit H to hide, shift-H to unhide again).


[This message has been edited by Plan B : 08-07-2002.]
PeaceDog
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posted 08-05-2002 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceDog    Click Here to Email PeaceDog UIN: 6541843UIN: 6541843    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
quote:
Originally posted by QPsiren:
It's best not to use the Thicken function. Try to create any borders you need from individual patch meshes.

why not? ...I believe the results are just the same (?)

obsidian
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posted 08-05-2002 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for obsidian     UIN: 102149590UIN: 102149590    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
quote:
Originally posted by PeaceDog:
why not? ...I believe the results are just the same (?)

No, thicken tends to create more patch meshes that may not be seen. Then you have to manually find the offending patches and delete them. Sometimes they even end up making some not very nice shapes as Snork found out.

Plan B: Yup, thanks again for a very informative mini-tutorial. The screenshots are not so bad, I'm on my laptop with a 33.3K modem (brother's using the desktop playing MOHAA) and everything loads relatively fast. This is probably another one of those things that need to be archived.

snork
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posted 08-06-2002 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for snork    Click Here to Email snork    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Plan B - I love you

Thank you very much for your help, this is exactly what I was looking for.

MelGibbsome
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Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-06-2002 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MelGibbsome    Click Here to Email MelGibbsome UIN: 7377978UIN: 7377978    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Are ya ready for a war?????????

I was passing by and saw this wonderful tutorial and decided to try it myself.

I'm stuck on the part where you say to flip it on the x-axis. Do you mean, with the patch mesh selected (in non v mode) click on selection and then flip x?

Cuz that doesn't work. I would really like to successfully complete your tutorial. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Every man dies. Not every man really lives!

MelGibbsome
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posted 08-06-2002 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MelGibbsome    Click Here to Email MelGibbsome UIN: 7377978UIN: 7377978    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Are ya ready for a war?????????

OK - I figured that out. You meant to say ROTATE the X as opposed to FLIP.

New quesiton. When you made the brushes that go behind the curved part, why did you connect them on an angle instead of at 90 degrees? You also did the angle thing with the face that was made up of patch meshes.

Is that just a preference of yours or is there a reason why that way is "better" than just butting up the brushes at 90 degrees (which would take less steps as no clipping would be needed)?

thanks

Every man dies. Not every man really lives!

krekits
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Posts: 945
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posted 08-06-2002 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krekits Visit krekits's Homepage!   Click Here to Email krekits    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
MelGibbsome, you're right, it's rotate, not flip. And the way the brushes are laid out is to avoid t-junction cracks/sparklies. As Plan-B points out: the top faces will be visible . Try to make your brushwork/patch meshes to meet at the control points.

[This message has been edited by krekits : 08-06-2002.]
rrroooaaarrr
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posted 08-06-2002 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rrroooaaarrr Visit rrroooaaarrr's Homepage!   Click Here to Email rrroooaaarrr UIN: 137228817UIN: 137228817    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged

Nice tute, thanks...I'm still pretty retarded with curve stuff myself.


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PeaceDog
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posted 08-06-2002 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceDog    Click Here to Email PeaceDog UIN: 6541843UIN: 6541843    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
quote:
Originally posted by obsidian:
No, thicken tends to create more patch meshes that may not be seen. Then you have to manually find the offending patches and delete them. Sometimes they even end up making some not very nice shapes as Snork found out.

You're right. But that's one of the times when de-select&delete; comes in handy too... (also useful after some brush/patch splitting). It isn't intuitive, yet it's a practical way to build.

Plan B
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posted 08-07-2002 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Plan B    Click Here to Email Plan B UIN: 159966629UIN: 159966629    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Thanks for the feedback on this.

(Edited "flip" to "rotate"...doh!)


The mitering was also intended to save tris, btw.

->


MelGibbsome
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posted 08-07-2002 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MelGibbsome    Click Here to Email MelGibbsome UIN: 7377978UIN: 7377978    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Are ya ready for a war?????????

I actually successfully completed the tutorial! WOOHOO!

Concerning the T-junctions versus miter joints, in addition to what was pointed out by Krekits and Plan B, I also noticed that when it comes to applying the textures, it simplifies things (if you use miters as opposed to T-junctions).

When I did the tutorial, I did T-junctions and when it came time to texture, I had to take extra steps to get the "end" face of one brush to match up with the "side" face of the other brush (the "end" and the "side" make up the entire length of one wall's face).

If you miter, a wall's face will only be composed of one brush's side and therefore, texturing will be easier, especially if you use something like "make fit".

Thanks again for the info and the time you took to make the tutorial, etc.

Every man dies. Not every man really lives!

[This message has been edited by MelGibbsome : 08-07-2002.]
krekits
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posted 08-08-2002 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krekits Visit krekits's Homepage!   Click Here to Email krekits    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
And mitering reduces tris count as opposed to the 'end-and side' method.

One could also do this:


Brushes are overlapping, but have the caulk txture.


The faces of the brushes pointing into the room are textured.


In-game end result.

obsidian
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posted 08-08-2002 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for obsidian     UIN: 102149590UIN: 102149590    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Mitering with the overlap method works too, but it just causes unsightly z-fighting in Radiant, sometimes making it harder to work with. I'd have to turn filter caulk on.
MelGibbsome
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posted 08-09-2002 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MelGibbsome    Click Here to Email MelGibbsome UIN: 7377978UIN: 7377978    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
Are ya ready for a war?????????

Krekits, in your example, there is no "z-fighting" at the corner where the two brushes overlap?

Depending on the texture, I would think that you would have to take extra steps (compared to just mitering) to align the two sets of "end and sides" pairs.

Every man dies. Not every man really lives!

krekits
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posted 08-09-2002 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krekits Visit krekits's Homepage!   Click Here to Email krekits    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
@MelGibbsome -> nope, no z-fighting. It looks a bit fugly in the editor though, but I can live with that. Clarification: the caulk texture is never drawn in-game, that's why there's no z-fighting.

No aligning needed if you use 32/64/128 wall width (depending on the texture used of course). In some cases horizontal alignment is necessary.

Plan B
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posted 08-09-2002 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Plan B    Click Here to Email Plan B UIN: 159966629UIN: 159966629    Edit/Delete Message Copy Reply URL to Clipboard Reply w/Quote  IP Logged
quote:
Originally posted by krekits:
@MelGibbsome -> nope, no z-fighting. It looks a bit fugly in the editor though, but I can live with that. Clarification: the caulk texture is never drawn in-game, that's why there's no z-fighting.
...

Well, unless the top or bottom horizontal faces are visible.
(Not the case in your example but in mine)

All times are PST (US)

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